Tough night of ...

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rjbokleman
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:09 pm

Tough night of ...

Unread post by rjbokleman »

... learning.

I had a tough go of it tonight with my equipment....trying to image for the first time using the Omni XLT 150 and the T5i. Also wasn't pleased with with alignments I was getting with the AVX. Seemed like no matter what I picked (Castor, Pollux, Mizar, Arcturus, I was always off at least half-a-finder scope view every time.

I could NOT get Backyard EOS http://www.otelescope.com with the T5i to focus on Jupiter or focus on anything for that matter. Certainly was bright enough of a subject to try and grab as a first subject, but no go.

After several hours of - no progress - I packed it in. I then did some research on the infamous topic of 'Backfocus' only to realize that my initial understanding was totally backwards. This http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/49090 ... eflectors/ discussion helped significantly.

What was I doing wrong? I had the T-Ring http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/as ... eos-camera attached with the recommended short extension tube http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/as ... -t-adapter. Then when I couldn't focus, I ended up adding another extension tube ... which (I realized later) only made things worse of course. Apparently, I needed to go the other direction! :oops:

Thankfully, the Omni's focuser has a removable short tube with a ring threaded on the outside that will allow me to attach the T-Ring directly. This will eliminate almost 2" of tube already there for visual observing. I'll need to try that next time out and see if that resolves my focus issue or as noted in the CloudyNights article...add a 2x Barlow.

Figured I'd share this experience for someone in the future who may run into the same issues with a Newtonian trying to image for the first time. Simply put, you need to get closer, not further away.
Ron B.
T5i/700D, ASI1600MM-C, ASI120MM, ASI174MM, XAGYL 7x36mm FW
Astronomik Deep-Sky(RGB), CLS, Ha, OIII, SII
SV60EDS 60mm f/5.5 APO
AT65EDQ 65mm f/6.5 ED Quadruplet
SW ProED 100mm f/9.0 Doublet APO
C8 EdgeHD, AT130EDT
AVX, iEQ45 Pro

http://www.astrobin.com/users/rjbokleman/
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Apollo XX
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Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by Apollo XX »

Yeah that sounds like it was a bit frustrating, Ron. And even if you did get the focal plane correctly positioned, you still would have had trouble focusing last night. The seeing was simply horrible - the worst I'd seen in a while. Jupiter wouldn't hold still for even a micro-second. I was looking for the Europa shadow transit and was only able to catch a random fleeting glimpse of it. But you got some good practice! Nothing ventured, nothing gained! 8)
"The purpose of life is the investigation of the Sun, the Moon, and the heavens." - Anaxagoras
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Pete
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Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by Pete »

Hi Ron,

Imaging can be very tough and one needs to start with things as simple as possible. In your case I'd advise simply debugging the basics by taking a terrestrial image thru the stationary scope. When you mix darkness with camera settings with focus issues and tracking issues and seeing issues etc. it can get very frustrating indeed.

Seeing was both very good and very bad last night. Had an hour between 9 & 10 when I caught a 20.3 magnitude asteroid before the wind came up again.

Keep trying,

Pete
Pete P.
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rjbokleman
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Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by rjbokleman »

Well, I just figured out what I did wrong on the alignment front at least. Combined with a better understanding 'Backfocus' now, I should be better equipped for tonight. Doesn't mean I'll get focus with the T5i / Omni combo, but at least I'll understand why. Maybe time for a Refractor at NEAF. :lol: (That'll be my excuse anyway.)

The Celestron AVX HC with the Celestron SkySync GPS requires - patience - for which I fell a bit short of last night.

I'd been out before and got perfect alignments, so I knew I must have changed my pattern without really knowing or catching it. Turns out that when you turn on the mount with the GPS connected you NEED to wait long enough for the GPS to not only obtain the correct time of day, but also your location of course. When I saw the time pop up correctly on the HC, I just assumed it was ready. Wrong! I missed the little 'Wait for GPS or Enter to continue..." message it was displaying. Instead, you have to WAIT and make SURE it goes to "2-Star Alignment" on it's own otherwise you've only got half of what you need....and if the GPS acquisition is slow...well you could be there a bit longer waiting for a proper signal. More than likely that's what was going on last night...slower than normal acquisition and a user pushing the buttons too fast not reading the actual message on the HC.

Lesson learned!

I'm going take Pete's advise and set things up during the daylight today and try again.
Ron B.
T5i/700D, ASI1600MM-C, ASI120MM, ASI174MM, XAGYL 7x36mm FW
Astronomik Deep-Sky(RGB), CLS, Ha, OIII, SII
SV60EDS 60mm f/5.5 APO
AT65EDQ 65mm f/6.5 ED Quadruplet
SW ProED 100mm f/9.0 Doublet APO
C8 EdgeHD, AT130EDT
AVX, iEQ45 Pro

http://www.astrobin.com/users/rjbokleman/
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mrgizmo65
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Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by mrgizmo65 »

Hi Ron, as they say experience is the best teacher, that will be a mistake you will never do again. I have the same problem when I am messing around with the focal length on my dob. when I get into it and think I got it straight, it pulls the rug out form under me. Hang in there you are doing great!!
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WCGucfa
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Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by WCGucfa »

Hi Ron,

You're just having too much trouble getting images! It shouldn't be taking you this long to get simple star images.
How about putting all the gizmos aside for awhile, meaning you should only have your scope and drive and a low power eyepiece NO COMPUTER .
Align your scope for tracking and get an easy object like the Moon in the field. Use your Canon camera in an auto exposure mode (only for a bright moon).
Orion (the company) has a "Universal Adapter (1.25)" that is variable, which you may already have, that will get you into focus with a reflector
or refractor. The Universal Adapter will you allow you to shoot at prime focus or eyepiece projection. Anyway, try this and see what happens.
I'm going nuts seeing you struggle (or at least you're helping me maintain my existing craziness!)
You shouldn't have to stack anything yet. Experiment getting constellation images with just a camera and tripod and a 15-20 second exposure at wide
aperture. This will help you get used to using your camera on the night sky.

You may have already done this stuff, but I haven't seen the results yet. I think you may be trying too hard. :shock:
Learning the basics shouldn't take months or years.
Good luck! I can't wait to see the results of your experimentation! The other Bill is correct in saying you have to simplify, simplify!

P.S.
If you choose to ignor this, that's OK.
At least I feel a lot better!

Bill G.
Last edited by WCGucfa on Wed May 20, 2015 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Comets:40, Best Meteor shwr: Leonids '01, Best Aurora:Oct. '03.
Total.Sol.Eclipse,7/10/72 from Nova Scotia.Annular Sol. Eclipse '94,
Trans.of Venus 2004&2012.,ShoeLevy crash into Jupiter '94.
4/25/66 fireball-9 mag.,SN2011fe,N2012aw,DelphN2013.
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NGC7000
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Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by NGC7000 »

Ron,

This is important and will make a great deal of difference....

How are you determining that your mount is level? Are you going by a bubble level installed on the AVX? If yes- most of those levels are installed poorly.

If you are relying on the GPS- I have never worked with one but I do suspect it merely works off one star axis point moving to another,and so for celestial viewing you are fine, but for imaging you're screwed. Your images will always end up with trails.

Here's what I've done...taking the mount off the tripod, Level the tripod making sure it's level in all three directions. Use a bubble and a straight level for this and, I also use two bubble levels to make sure THEY are level with each other.

I then reinstall the bubble level ( dig it out and refix with plaster of Paris). Let it dry and then put your mount back on. Now you know it's level when you look at the bubble.

Tom
Tom H
"Science knows no country, because knowledge belongs to humanity, and is the torch which illuminates the world. Science is the highest personification of the nation because that nation will remain the first which carries the furthest the works of thought and intelligence." - Louis Pasteur
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WCGucfa
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Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by WCGucfa »

Great advice, Tom!
We've got to slow Ron down from the speed of light, to about 55 mph.
No wonder everything's a blur! :shock:
(Sorry Ron, I do a lot of driving! :oops:

Bill G.
Comets:40, Best Meteor shwr: Leonids '01, Best Aurora:Oct. '03.
Total.Sol.Eclipse,7/10/72 from Nova Scotia.Annular Sol. Eclipse '94,
Trans.of Venus 2004&2012.,ShoeLevy crash into Jupiter '94.
4/25/66 fireball-9 mag.,SN2011fe,N2012aw,DelphN2013.
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rjbokleman
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:09 pm

Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by rjbokleman »

NGC7000 wrote:Ron,

This is important and will make a great deal of difference....

How are you determining that your mount is level? Are you going by a bubble level installed on the AVX? If yes- most of those levels are installed poorly.

If you are relying on the GPS- I have never worked with one but I do suspect it merely works off one star axis point moving to another,and so for celestial viewing you are fine, but for imaging you're screwed. Your images will always end up with trails.

Here's what I've done...taking the mount off the tripod, Level the tripod making sure it's level in all three directions. Use a bubble and a straight level for this and, I also use two bubble levels to make sure THEY are level with each other.

I then reinstall the bubble level ( dig it out and refix with plaster of Paris). Let it dry and then put your mount back on. Now you know it's level when you look at the bubble.

Tom
Tom,

The Celestron Advanced VX does not include a bubble level. Maybe older units did, but mine does not have one despite the manual making mention of it. That aside, I'm using the nice bubble level in my iPhone. Works just fine. I level the tripod base without anything attached and then add the head, weight and then polar align it roughly using my polar scope. Finally, I add the scope and then do a 2-Star + 2-4 Calibration Star alignment. Things are going much better as you'll see shortly.
Ron B.
T5i/700D, ASI1600MM-C, ASI120MM, ASI174MM, XAGYL 7x36mm FW
Astronomik Deep-Sky(RGB), CLS, Ha, OIII, SII
SV60EDS 60mm f/5.5 APO
AT65EDQ 65mm f/6.5 ED Quadruplet
SW ProED 100mm f/9.0 Doublet APO
C8 EdgeHD, AT130EDT
AVX, iEQ45 Pro

http://www.astrobin.com/users/rjbokleman/
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NGC7000
15+ Years Member
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:51 pm

Re: Tough night of ...

Unread post by NGC7000 »

Hi Ron,

Sorry for the delayed response...Sounds like an excellent way to level it. looking forward to hearing about ( and possibly seeing :lol: ) your results.

Tom
Tom H
"Science knows no country, because knowledge belongs to humanity, and is the torch which illuminates the world. Science is the highest personification of the nation because that nation will remain the first which carries the furthest the works of thought and intelligence." - Louis Pasteur
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